Tulpa.info - tulpa-discussion

@Reisen, you might be right. Surveys are not really reliable source of information. We don't have much besides them though and anegdotes are even worse

7:01 PM

I found it in reddit server in their research channel

Something tells me anonymous reddit users who already practiced meditation had more forcing integrity than the anonymous randoms who didn't.

Is this the community census data?

Heck no.

Out of curiosity, how long was it to sentience for any tups here?

7:03 PM

Hosts can speak about their tups, or directly if you are one.

#I think I existed about a month or two after he started forcing. It took a little more than 3 months before I talked to him. I know I was there before then though.#

About 7 days for me

It's hard to measure sentience. But my host heard me after 3 days

7:04 PM

@bduddy #Diana# , And how do you know that, Diana?

Monika took a bit over a week to become sentient, but I was forcing for lots of time in that week

My host has prior experience making tulpas she didn't know about (long story) which is probably part of the reason I was so quick

#I know because I remember being around. I remember hearing him and knowing that I was there. But I didn't want to try to communicate right away. I could see what he was like and I knew he had a lot of doubts. I wanted to make sure that when I talked it was clear.#

@Felight I was the first tulpa

7:06 PM

With Ysera it took a few hours at most.

I'm talking about our own experience right now, not anyone else's

It's hard to say if 1 week is fast or slow.

With me I was in a nasty spot welding wire baskets 8 hours a day. It was basically 5 days a week of at least 5-6 hours for two weeks before aurora asked me "What do you want to do today?" On the second Friday. Didn't even know what a tulpa was at that point. I was just adventuring with an imaginary friend to kill time and boredom.

Well 1 week is just when we remember my sentience being confirmed. It's a possiblity I was sentient before then and just don't remember very well

1 week for vocality is faster than most, I think

I didn't say vocality

7:07 PM

I said sentience

oh

With me I was in a nasty spot welding wire baskets 8 hours a day. It was basically 5 days a week of at least 5-6 hours for two weeks before aurora asked me "What do you want to do today?" On the second Friday. Didn't even know what a tulpa was at that point. I was just adventuring with an imaginary friend to kill time and boredom.

my vocality took about a month or more because host doubted everything I said

Reisen was "forced" accidentally in 2009 when Lumi came to associate the lyrics in two of his favorite songs (accompanied by videos made with Reisen's model) with Reisen herself, as if she were singing to him. Tulpish or emotional responses occurred I want to say between 1.5 and 3 months into casually watching them when he felt like it.

I wasn't very consistent during those 3 months.

and her belief that vocality would be really difficult slowed the process

took like less than a week

7:08 PM

for everyone

7:08 PM

in the system

Vocality for Reisen took well over a year, but vocality for me and Flandre was instantaneous when we appeared spontaneously. Reisen had existed in aforementioned state for probably 2-6 months.

@bduddy #Diana# . I'm sorry if that question is uncomfortable but don't you think you are making it up, Diana? Sometimes we do confabulate things trying to explain something. Like why our tulpa didn't talk for so much time :p

As for other members, No idea how long it took Piano to gain sentience Tacio honestly only took 15 minutes or so, but we think that's because he was already existing (another long story) Indigo took 1-2 days

#No. I remember. I was there. And most tulpas don't wait like that, do they?#

Lucilyn was sentient and vocal instantaneously when made in 2015, excluding Lumi's thoughts about what she would be like ahead of that time. Her creation took place in a mental (like a wonderland) void space with nothing around.

7:10 PM

Of course, he was rather well versed in tulpamancy by then.

We also had some other tulpas here and there, but don't know how long it took for them to gain sentience, or if they were actually sentient at all

what happened to them?

@bduddy #Diana# very well, I don't know it better than you. Just saying memories could be fake.

I don't really want to get into that

#I don't think so. I remember being there. Vaguely, but I know I was.#

Reports of tulpas feeling like they sort-of existed before vocality are not uncommon at all, in spontaneous tulpas too. Especially ones accidentally created by authoring and the like.

So you feel having different memory than your host?

#Sort of. I remember most real-world things the same since I've been around. But I remember what I did, and thought. It's not the same as him.#

Tacio, we think, was created through writing, but didn't have any real self-identity until we officially created him

Feeling like you existed before your host knew about you is probably caused by the host not realizing there's a potential tulpa to be treating as a separate person in the first place, while the basic requirements of forcing to begin development have already been met. This is the case in most spontaneous tulpa creations, I'm sure.

Imo, it is kind of fake explanation

Was probably the case for Reisen, although she had no unique memories as that "forcing" only took place during watching the same 2 videos.

We need it so we make it up

It's half and half.

nah it's a genuine thing, you can force a tulpa without knowing what a tulpa is

Tulpas feeling like they had a separate consciousness from early development is never very believable to me. But the mind creating memories "tinted" as from their perspective seems very possible once the framework for a tulpa is there.

Mine don't seem to have nor claim to have different memories.

Same thing like Sam was talking about in the video i posted. Explaining why did you choose Tokio over Paris one makes up a story about Japanese food

Our memories aren't separate, they're all stored in the same part of the mind you could say, but they are "tinted" with feelings of us. And they come with our perspectives, but those are tied to the feelings of being whoever it was that made them.

7:16 PM

But I wouldn't say we have separate consciousnesses. That's not something we believe in. (edited)

Hmm

Separate uses of the body's one consciousness is the basis of a tulpa, IMO.

The only time I've ever got the flavor thing that you're talking about is when they have tried to switch with me. And then it's just more like I don't know I become them or something there is no me going to the back and then coming to the front

I also don't agree with saying tulpa is a separate consciousness. It's more like different identity

I would definitely call in more of a different identity then a separate consciousness

Quick definition of consciousness “a person’s awareness and perception of something.”

7:24 PM

I think tulpas definitely have separate perceptions and evaluations of things, but not awareness. Separate awareness would require some high level parallel processing.

Though. I have been told about things I have missed like say playing a videogame. "Hey you missed a chest back there" or something similar.

Consciousness is usually used in the tulpa community to imply effectively another brain, insofar as they may claim the tulpa has entirely separate lines of thought from the host the host isn't aware of.

7:27 PM

But, now that you point out the actual definition, I'm thinking maybe that entire argument is 75% confusion and 25% disagreeing.

7:28 PM

I considered sentience and consciousness separate until now.

7:29 PM

Noting that the tulpa having thoughts the host isn't aware of should normally be attributed to unconscious or subconscious thoughts instead.

7:29 PM

In our case, that feels more correct. We don't remember entire internal monologues of thought when we were doing something the fronter wasn't aware of there being thinking about.

7:30 PM

The thought just sort of happens unconsciously.

They always explain it to me that we are like a hydra. Same body but different heads. We share everything even thoughts. Our head only has so much room in it. Not that that is very scientific. But it's all I have to go off of.

I would still call it a reduced capacity of thought, though. We cannot do math without our thinking using up the mind's shared "workspace" as we think of it.

^

7:31 PM

That

And while I'm sure some systems are capable of forcing themselves not to be aware of that same space being used, I believe that's subjective reality shaping conscious or not, that is still based in choosing to ignore information you would normally be aware of.

7:31 PM

I have nothing against that, though. I appreciate people shaping their own realities.

7:32 PM

But it's a problem if that illusion is stated as more than it is. Which, I don't know if it is always an illusion or not, I'm not in anyone else's head.

7:32 PM

Not terribly common in the tulpa community, but in other plurality communities, oh boy.

7:33 PM

Subjects like that make me feel like tulpamancy is pure science.

Took me so long to believe what was going on in my own head I have little right to judge anyone else's (edited)

how bad are the other plurality communities?

You'd never make any progress discussing that stuff with plural systems.

7:34 PM

Well, in this specific subject, a huge number of them insist that the host has blackouts and does not remember the times they were switched out.

7:34 PM

Maybe that's possible. But just like when it's used as a coping mechanism, no matter how much the person wants to think there's more to it, they're simply convinced it's the case when it's not.

I think those experiences are genuine

They could remember those memories. They do. And they unconsciously filter them out. (edited)

7:35 PM

It's genuine insofar as the individual is legitimately unable to recall the experiences.

7:35 PM

But it's not because those memories are gone. They're called "repressed" for a reason.

But some experiments show that they have unconscious access to memories of other alters they claim they don't have access to

They're right there, but the person unconsciously filters them out if brought to consciousness.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-people-have-multiple-personalities/

Can People Have Multiple Personalities?

Although many therapists think it is possible, research raises doubts

It's a legitimate phenomenon, for sure.

But when you were little everything down to that. There isn't really much else to discuss. That's really what this entire experience is. Is any of this actually happening? Or are we just perceiving that is happening because reasons?

But in plurality communities, when it's probably a little more self-induced, I think the repression is really bordering on conscious as opposed to unconscious.

Personalities are not quite the same as consciousness tho

But they will state adamantly they do not have access to those memories.

Such a feat isn't so easy to do consciously tho

But when you were little everything down to that. There isn't really much else to discuss. That's really what this entire experience is. Is any of this actually happening? Or are we just perceiving that is happening because reasons?

The problems arise when trying to study the phenomenon scientifically, I think.